Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/24/1996 01:50 PM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 24, 1996
1:50 P.M.
TAPE HFC 96-135, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 96-135, Side 2, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 96-136, Side 1, #000 - #351.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Mark Hanley called the House Finance Committee
meeting to order at 1:50 p.m.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Hanley Representative Martin
Co-Chair Foster Representative Mulder
Representative Brown
Representative Grussendorf Representative Parnell
Representative Kelly Representative Therriault
Representative Kohring
Representative Navarre was absent from the meeting.
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Joe Green; Mark Boyer, Commissioner,
Department of Administration; Duane Buell, Juneau; Helen
Merhrkens, Department of Education; Wendy Redmond, Vice
President, University of Alaska; Brett Huber, Staff, Senator
Green; Del Smith, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Public
Safety; Tess Lanum, Alaska PTA; Ed Knoebel, Glenallen,
Patrick Gullufsen, Assistant Attorney General, Department of
Law.
SUMMARY
HB 545 An Act relating to the cost-of-living differential
for certain public employees residing in the state
and the criteria for determining eligibility for
the differential; and providing for an effective
date.
CSHB 545 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with
a "do pass" recommendation and with three zero
fiscal notes by the Department of Administration,
the Department of Revenue, and the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities, all dated
3/22/96.
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SB 80 An Act relating to police protection service areas
in unified municipalities; and to police
protection provided by the state in certain
municipal areas.
SB 80 was rescheduled to another time.
SB 177 An Act relating to permits to carry concealed
handguns.
HCS CSSB 177 (FIN) was reported out of Committee
with a "do pass" recommendation and with a fiscal
impact note by the Department of Public Safety,
dated 4\11\96; a zero fiscal note by the
Department of Corrections, dated 3/26/96; and a
zero fiscal note by the Department of Law, dated
3/6/96.
SCR 29 Objecting to the Department of Administration's
settlement with certain employees of the Alaska
marine highway system.
SCR 29 was rescheduled to another time.
HOUSE BILL NO. 545
"An Act relating to the cost-of-living differential for
certain public employees residing in the state and the
criteria for determining eligibility for the
differential; and providing for an effective date."
PAT GULLUFSEN, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF LAW
noted that HB 545 was introduced by the Administration in
order to clarify the definition of residency for Cost of
Living Differentials (COLD) for Alaska Marine Highway
employees. He observed that HB 545 adopts the permanent
fund dividend definition of resident for purposes of the
COLD. The definition was altered by the insertion of
"temporarily" as requested by the Administration. The House
State Affairs Committee also deleted from the temporarily
allowable allowances exemptions for serving in Congress or
the Peace Corps. He noted that HB 545 clarifies that the
criteria is not subject to bargaining under the Public
Employees Retirement Act (PERA). The legislation also gives
the Commissioner of Administration the authority to clarify
and implement the criteria by regulation. He noted that
this is similar to the authority of the Commissioner of the
Department of Revenue in relation to the permanent fund
dividend.
Mr. Gullufsen noted that the Department of Administration
has proposed an amendment, Amendment 1 (copy on file). The
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amendment would set the differential rate by statute. The
rate is currently subject to negotiation. The rate would
be set based on a recent study of COLD by the Division of
Personnel. The Director of Personnel would have the
authority to adjust the rate according to studies
demonstrating the cost of living in Alaskan communities and
Bellingham, Washington. Adjustments would be subject to
annual legislative review.
Co-Chair Hanley stressed that the intent is to clarify in
statute that the criteria for residency will not be
negotiable.
MARK BOYER, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION
referred to a two page chronological listing of COLD events
(copy on file). He noted that COLD was implemented in 1980
and became active in 1982. He observed that PERA directed
that the State have a cost of living differential. It does
not specify the amount or criteria of the differential. He
emphasized that the dispute over COLD payments began in
1989. Historically the amount of the COLD and the criteria
for qualification have been settled through negotiation. He
maintained that COLD is part of the negotiation package. He
observed that it was initiated to entice out-of-state
employees to come to Alaska for residency. The original
amount was 22.5 percent which was the same as the federal
cost of living allowance at the time. He maintained that
the real cost of living differential between Seattle and
Southeastern communities are negligible and should be
reviewed.
Commissioner Boyer observed that the Administration has
asked that COLD criteria be placed in statute. He
emphasized that contracts that do not contain the criteria
could be reopened if the legislation is enacted to deal with
COLD criteria. If this fails the criteria will be in place
the next time the contracts are negotiated.
Co-Chair Hanley summarized that the two contracts currently
before the Legislature for ratification would not be
affected. Commissioner Boyer noted that the Marine
Engineer's Beneficial Association (MEBA) will be under
negotiation in the fall.
In response to comments by Representative Martin,
Commissioner Boyer emphasized that the problem was not
created by the current Administration. He stressed that
there are a number of programs that require residency.
Mr. Gullufsen stated that the court has not recognized a
definite set of criteria under the COLD statute. He
observed that COLD statutes, AS 23.42.10, states "for
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employees residing in the state of Alaska. He noted that
there are statutes for establishing residency for voting
purposes.
Mr. Gullufsen noted that an arbitrator determined that time
spent working on a vessel in Alaskan waters can be counted
toward residency. He stressed that the legislation proposes
language that would clarify that the criteria will be the
same as the State has always thought was the criteria. He
stated that if the legislation is enacted the State will
argue that the criteria applies now to everybody except MEBA
which has other agreed to criteria. He clarified that the
MEBA agreement would apply permanent fund dividend
regulations.
Commissioner Boyer noted that the problem began when COLD
was initiated. Administrations since 1989 have recognized
the need to set criteria through regulation. He reviewed
events outlined on Attachment 1. He summarized that there
was not adequate criteria.
Co-Chair Hanley noted that the current Administration could
have adopted regulations. He added that discussions were
held on this issue during the 3/20/96, House Finance
Committee meeting. Commissioner Boyer recounted
negotiations during the previous year.
Co-Chair Hanley asked for copies of arbitrator's decisions.
Discussion occurred regarding the responsibility of the
Administration and Legislature in regards to the failure to
implement criteria.
Representative Mulder asked if the legislation would result
in a uniform, consistent COLD format. Commissioner Boyer
clarified that the legislation only applies to the marine
units.
Commissioner Boyer reiterated that Amendment 1 would take
COLD criteria outside of the bargaining process.
Representative Mulder expressed support for Amendment 1.
Co-Chair Hanley asked if Amendment 1 would be consistent
with other legislation. Commissioner Boyer stated that it
would be consistent with other legislation.
Co-Chair Hanley summarized that the legislation would
provide that new contracts would not be negotiated. The
criteria and rates set by the legislation would be enacted
and become statute. Commissioner Boyer added that the rates
would be reviewed every five years after a study is
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completed.
In response to a question by Co-Chair Hanley, Commissioner
Boyer explained that IBU members tie ships off. Employees
at ferry terminals are GGU and SSU members. The person who
ties up the ships receives a COLD of 18 to 22 percent. On
shore personnel receive a fraction of this amount.
Mr. Gullufsen observed that the State was told that COLD
criteria needed to be bargained in order to be applied.
Under PERA disputes must go to an arbitrator. The State has
challenged the arbitrator's ruling in court. He emphasized
that accept where the State has set down to permissively
negotiate criteria the State has the authority as a public
employer to propagate criteria without negotiation.
Co-Chair Hanley asked if there is a penalty section in the
legislation. Mr. Gullufsen explained that there are no
specific penalty provisions in the statute. He emphasized
that employees can be dismissed and required to return COLD
payments that they should not have received. He stated that
criminal prosecution is possible if false physical evidence
is given. Co-Chair Hanley stated that there should be some
penalty specifically associated with false resident claims.
Mr. Gullufsen stated that there is a criminal penalty
provision stated on the form.
(Tape Change, HFC 96-135, Side 2)
Representative Martin asked if the same penalties for
falsifying permanent fund dividend applications could apply.
Mr. Gullufsen did not think the same penalties could apply
unless they were included in the legislation. He stated
that it would not complicate or harm things to have specific
criminal provision with regards to false claims of residency
for COLD purposes.
In response to a question by Representative Martin, Mr.
Gullufsen stated that it would be difficult to impose on the
union the responsibility to report the true residence of
their members.
Commissioner Boyer pointed out that employees sign a form to
certify their Alaskan residency. He noted that the new form
will embrace the criteria. All members of MEBA will have to
recertify under the new criteria. The Alaska Marine Highway
system will submit the forms to the Permanent Fund Dividend
Division.
Representative Mulder MOVED to adopt Amendment 1. There
being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. Commissioner Boyer
noted that the rates included in Amendment 1 reflect the
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1994, Runzheimer study. The study recommended a 14 percent
differential for Ketchikan and a 7 percent differential for
Kodiak. These were adjusted in Amendment 1.
Co-Chair Hanley summarized that the rates if enacted would
be adopted for any new contracts until a new study is
completed. The Director of Personnel would implement new
rates by regulations after the next study is completed.
The regulations would be subject to legislative review.
Commissioner Boyer clarified that the bench mark should be
Bellingham since operations were moved there from Seattle.
He emphasized that rates will be subject to legislative
input.
Representative Brown observed that the amendment would state
that there is no difference in the cost of living in Juneau
or Anchorage and Bellingham, Washington. Commissioner Boyer
noted that the Runzheimer study contained an error range of
-3.5 - +3.5.
Commissioner Boyer reiterated that the Legislature can
change or modify rates placed by regulations.
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 1 was adopted.
Co-Chair Foster MOVED to report CSHB 545 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
CSHB 545 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with three zero fiscal notes by the
Department of Administration, the Department of Revenue, and
the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, all
dated 3/22/96.
SENATE BILL NO. 177
"An Act relating to permits to carry concealed
handguns."
BRENT HUBER, STAFF, SENATOR GREEN testified on behalf of SB
177. He provided the Committee with written testimony (copy
on file). He maintained that SB 177 will revise the current
concealed handgun program to provide a more streamlined and
less costly process.
Mr. Huber provided members with a sectional analysis of SB
177 (copy on file). He reviewed the sectional analysis. He
noted that the sponsor has provided an amendment that would
remove subsections 1(e) and 11(a). Subsection 1(a) would
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provide an affirmative defense for AS 11.61.210 that would
allow permit holders to carry concealed weapons on school
grounds providing that they did not exit a propelled
vehicle. He stressed that the sponsor has tried to find
language that would allow permit holders the opportunity to
pick up or drop off their children at school. The sponsor
was not able to find language that was agreeable to
opponents and recommends the deletion of the existing
language.
TESS LANUM, VICE PRESIDENT ON LEGISLATION, ALASKA STATE
PARENT/TEACHERS ASSOCIATION testified via the teleconference
network. (Ms. Lanum's written remarks are on file.) She
stated that Alaska PTA agrees with the removal of
subsections 1(e) and 11(a). She asked that the original
law regarding concealed weapons on school property remain in
place.
Representative Kelly noted that subsection 11(a) of work
draft, 9-LS1139\S, 4/22/96, states that concealed handguns
may not be carried on to school grounds or a school bus
"other than while in a propelled vehicle, other than a
school bus, and the permittee does not exit the vehicle".
Ms. Lanum spoke in opposition to the language in 11(a).
WENDY REDMOND, VICE PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA spoke in
support of deleting subsections 1(e) and 11(a). She
observed that University of Alaska classrooms are not
covered by the legislation since they are not included under
the definition of "schools." She requested that concealed
handguns be excluded from University of Alaska campus
grounds or facilities except as provided by the Board of
Regents policy. She noted that the Board of Regents
currently allow guns on campus. There are secure places in
each dorm for gun storage. Guns are allowed in locked cars.
The University of Alaska does not support the policy of
concealed weapons in classrooms. She emphasized that
campuses are well protected. There are commissioned
officers on campuses. She added that security forces and
lighting have been increased.
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN stated that he is opposed to
allowing concealed handguns on schools. He expressed
support for the elimination of subsections 1(e) and 11(a).
He stressed that if protection is needed that other measures
should be taken.
HELEN MERHRKENS, STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION noted that the
Board unanimously opposes the concept of allowing concealed
handguns on school grounds. She noted that the Board
believes that all conditions directly related to the safety
and health of public school students and staff are of utmost
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importance. She added that the Board opposes concealed
weapons in state operated public libraries.
Representative Kelly asked Ms. Merhrkens for the rationale
behind her objections. Ms. Merhrkens stated that testimony
from parents indicated concern that there with guns on
school property. She stated that parents do not want guns
on school grounds unless they are part of an organized
event. She stated that someone who brings a concealed
handgun in a vehicle may illegally get out of the car with
their gun.
Representative Kelly expressed support for the ability of
parents to carry concealed weapons in their cars on school
grounds. He maintained that it would be a benefit to have
parents with guns on school grounds in the case of an
incident. Ms. Merhrkens stated that their preference is for
trained law enforcement officers to respond to incidents on
school grounds.
Representative Martin noted the use of guns in rural areas.
Ms. Merhrkens noted that the use of rifle ranges would not
be prohibited under current law.
(Tape Change, HFC 96-136, Side 1)
Representative Kelly summarized that a handgun can be
carried in the trunk if it is unloaded.
DUANE BUELL, JUNEAU testified in SB 177. He stated that he
supports any provision that relaxes restrictions on
concealed handguns. He noted that permit holders from other
states have to meet qualifications in their states. He
asserted that "not one of the horror stories that (the
Department of) Public Safety advanced as being a consequence
of passing a concealed carry bill has come true in the last
16 months." He pointed out that the process assures that
permit holders are law abiding responsible persons. He
stressed that he wants the ability to defend himself if the
need arises. He spoke against restrictions.
Representative Kohring echoed the remarks of Mr. Buell.
Representative Brown stated that a permittee can carry their
weapon in a holster, unconcealed, in most of the areas that
concealed weapons can not be carried. Mr. Buell argued that
those that carry weapons in the open are a target for
criminals.
Mr. Huber noted that AS 11.61.220 A(4)(a) allows all
unloaded firearms to be carried in a trunk or encased in a
closed container in a motor vehicle. He clarified that
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concealed handguns would be included under this provision.
In response to a question by Representative Brown, Mr. Huber
discussed section 3. He noted that current law prohibits
anyone from carrying concealed handguns anyplace that has a
beverage dispensary license. This includes restaurants. He
noted that permit holders want to be able to go out to lunch
with their weapons. He observed that there is no clear
differentiation between restaurants and bars. He stated
that it is already against the law and in statute to possess
a firearm while intoxicated. He maintained that concealed
handgun permit holders should be able to go in and out of
normal businesses. He stressed that under an affirmative
defense the defendant would have to prove that they have not
consumed alcohol in the 8 hours previous to carrying a
concealed weapon. He noted that a blood alcohol level of
below .04 percent is the same as commercial driver's
license. The first detectable level is .02 percent.
Representative Brown noted that a loaded firearm could be
concealed in a place where liquor is sold. Mr. Huber stated
that the exception is for a loaded firearm in the possession
of a permit holder who has not consumed or has no blood
alcohol level greater than .04 percent.
Mr. Huber explained that an affirmative defense states that
the laws of the section pertain, however, an allowable
exception is given if proof is made that the terms of the
exception are met. He noted that the Department of Law did
not support a direct offense. The burden of proof would be
on the permit holder.
Representative Brown asked if this provision would encourage
persons to violate the law. Mr. Huber noted that one of the
requirements for obtaining a permit is that the permittee
have a clear explanation and study of the laws that pertain
to the program.
Representative Brown referred to subsections 11 (4) and (5).
She asked why the existing language was deleted. Mr. Huber
noted that testimony stressed that the firearm properly
possessed by the permit holder is safer in their direct
control than left in a car outside of their control. He
maintained that permit holders are the most law abiding and
responsible citizens.
In response to a question by Representative Brown, Mr. Huber
noted that subsection 11(8) received the most public
testimony. Deletion of subsection 11(8) would allow
concealed weapons to be carried in financial institutions or
banks. He maintained that permit holders want to carry
concealed weapons as protection to and from banks.
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Representative Martin MOVED to adopt Amendment 1 (copy on
file). Amendment 1 would provide that concealed handguns be
excluded from the University of Alaska campus grounds or
facilities except as provided by the Board of Regents
policy. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Mulder MOVED to adopt committee substitute,
Work Draft, 9-LS1139\S, dated 4\22\96 as amended by
Amendment 1 (copy on file).
Mr. Huber discussed changes in the committee substitute.
Section 3 was changed to include the blood alcohol level. A
blanket prohibition on health care providing facilities was
deleted. He noted that individual facilities can set their
own policy regarding concealed handguns. He added that
reciprocity provisions were changed.
There being NO OBJECTION, Work Draft, 9-LS1139\S, dated
4\22\96 as amended by Amendment 1 was adopted.
Representative Mulder MOVED to adopt Amendment 2, 9-
LS1139\S.1 (copy on file). Amendment 2 would delete "other
than while in a propelled vehicle, other than a school bus,
and the permittee does not exit the vehicle."
Representative Kelly expressed opposition to Amendment 2,
but acknowledged that there is strong support for the
amendment among opponents of concealed handguns.
Mr. Huber stated that the legislation would remain silent in
regards to any provisions regarding schools with the
adoption of Amendment 2. The current law disallowing
concealed handguns on school property would remain.
Representative Kelly noted that handguns could be carried
unloaded in a trunk or container.
In response to a question by Representative Mulder, Mr.
Huber noted that if another state is honoring Alaska's
permit, Alaska would honor their permit. He emphasized that
other states also provide for a criminal background check
and finger printing information. He noted that training
provisions differ from state to state. Representative
Mulder expressed concern that other states provide the same
protection.
DEL SMITH, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
stated that he understood that other states would have to be
as stringent as Alaska for reciprocity to exist.
Co-Chair Foster MOVED to report HCS CSSB 177 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes.
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Representative Brown OBJECTED for purposes of discussion.
She maintained that handguns are a threat to our children.
She asserted that the proliferation throughout society is
troubling and a threat. She thought it was a mistake to
expand areas concealed weapons can be carried.
Representative Brown WITHDREW her Objection.
There being NO OBJECTION, HCS CSSB 177 (FIN) was reported
out of Committee.
Representative Kohring maintained that expansion of handguns
will provide greater safety to law abiding citizens.
HCS CSSB 177 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with a fiscal impact note by the
Department of Public Safety, dated 4\11\96; a zero fiscal
note by the Department of Corrections, dated 3/26/96; and a
zero fiscal note by the Department of Law, dated 3/6/96.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 4:00 p.m.
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